# red giant habitable zone

Опубликовано: December 20, 2020 в 8:57 am

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In one of his later books (Foundation’s Edge, I think) Asimov establishes that few to no planets are truly habitable when human’s first arrive. Another question comes to mind: is the picture fuzziness caused by telescope resolution limits, actual giant star fuzziness, or both? It turns out the timescales will be different for different masses of stars. How big / luminous is the helium-burning star then? For our coolest star (M1), the … If a star enters the red giant phase and begins to shed material, would that effect the gravity, causing the planets to slowly migrate outward? So there is no particular reason why the Galactic Empire couldn’t have set up a capital around Arcturus, so long as the star does have any violent fluctuations in brightness or solar (Arcturian?) Thanks! Post was not sent - check your email addresses! :-p. Yes, that would have an effect on the orbit of the planets. I wonder if an icy/rocky planet or moon might be a good choice. This gives us another criteria that we’ll need to determine habitability: the ability to produce photosynthesis. Most likely they would also have tried moving their inner planets out of harm’s way diverting asteroids or large comets for gravitational assists. The reason is Jupiter perturbs the orbital radius of Earth some. After the hydrogen shell burns out (or sometimes overlapping depending on stellar mass), helium fusion kicks in and the star can become a giant again. But what makes Mars and Venus inhospitable and Earth relatively cozy is our atmosphere. Now I remember reading something like it somewhere. So we need an oxygen rich atmosphere, but not too oxygen rich or there won’t be enough greenhouse gasses to keep the planet warm. Dependent upon the mass of the original star, planets and their moons loiter in this red giant habitable zone up to 9 billion years. At that time, the amount of hydrogen fuel in the core of the Sun will have run out. But if you are going to use these fictional examples in your argument, you have to accept the possibility compatible entities in any counter argument. Let’s say that Type I civilizations developed on a planet around these stars while they were on the main sequence. Too slow and the habitable zone may have already swept by or the star may have run out of hydrogen in the shell and started contracting again only to ignite helium fusion in the core, once again freezing the planet. That is exactly why first order theories are natural. The “energy level” thing is obviously garbage, but personally when I think of type 1 civilizations, I think of them like this (I think this is a more common usage than the “energy capacity of civilizations” anyway): Type 1: A civ capable of utilizing all the resources of a planet Now NASA has an easy arts and crafts project where you can make your own exoplanets at home. This shrinking causes the star to heat up again, increasing the temperature until a shell of hydrogen around the now exhausted core becomes hot enough to take up the job of the core and begins fusing hydrogen to helium. Comets are composed mostly of frozen carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. Currently, the fusion of that hydrogen into helium is giving rise to a pressure which keeps the star from collapsing in on itself due to gravity. If you go to M stars, there is also atmosphere loss. For Venus the runaway greenhouse made it too hot for effective carbonation IIRC, and somehow it lost its water that means less tectonics, less weathering and less oxygenated silicates I think. I will say I think there is a germ of something to this. Normal yellow stars, like our sun, become red giants after several billion years. Interestingly, the Earth will leave the habitable zone of the Sun long before it becomes a red giant. Even a wimpy $1000\,{\rm L}_\odot$ red giant pushes the habitable zone out to at least $30\,{\rm AU}$, i.e. Calçada. More massive stars burn through their fuel faster and will thus be shorter. Our estimates for the habitable zone lifetime for the Earth is between 6.29 and 7.8 billion years (depending on the type of habitable zone calculation used) from it's formation (so, 1.8 to 3.3 billion years from now), but the Sun's main sequence lifetime is on the order of 10.9 billion years. Life on it, Triton, and similar worlds in the Kuiper Belt is almost a certainty at that point. Four billion years ago the radius would have been .83AU, which given the reduced energy output of the sun would make temperatures comparable to today’s. Join our 836 patrons! New research shows that aging red giant stars, far from destroying life, could warm frozen worlds into habitable homes. Instead, the habitable zone will be further out, more where Jupiter is now. It’s like every movie Johm Williams scored is just fantasy…. JohnWDailey JohnWDailey. I doubt there are civilizations which gain control over a whole galaxy, and certainly not an entire universe. Credit: Wendy Kenigsburg. The Borg would be bordering on type 2. As for the inner planets that get fried….I read somewhere that the outer regions of red giants are extremely thin, possibly thinner than our atmosphere, and closer to a hot vacuum. First Star Wars, now Superman. I did forget that well before the Sun enters the red giant phase, it’s tempurature and brightness will increase, sending Earth into a hot zone. Credit: ESO/L. Its membership of The initial hydrogen shell is just the first of (potentially) many periods in which a star can be considered a giant. In a billion years the radius will be 1.03AU and 1.15 in 5 billion years when the sun enters the red giant stage. I imagine the engulfed planet would stay together in a decaying orbit inside the star. Kurzweil’s singularity concept has become a bit of a buzz of late. “The main result is that the maximum time that a planet can remain in this red giant habitable zone of hot stars is 200 million years. Where will the new inhabitable zone be? That’s no small amount of time,” said Ramirez. In our own solar system, it extends from roughly the orbit of Venus to the orbit of Mars. The diameter of a Red Giant ranges from 62–621 million miles. $\endgroup$ – CyberneticFen Apr 3 '17 at 16:29. This means we can’t have old planets since they would have had all their free CO2 locked away into the surface. After astar completes its first ascent along the red giant branch and the Heflash takes place, there is an additional stable period of quiescent Hecore burning during which there is another opportunity for life todevelop. However, this process took several hundred million years. With the sun it will mean Jupiter and Saturn will be “balmy,” or in the habitable zones. Even before it becomes red the changing sun heats the oceans and atmosphere wiping out almost everything other than bacteria.A few million years after that the oceans boil off. Huh? Also, CO2 doesn’t block UV light from the Sun and cancer rates would go up. Saturn , Uranus , Neptune and Pluto all lie within 10 to 50 AU, as do their icy moons and the Kuiper Belt Objects. More massive stars will evolve even more quickly. Their research, “Habitable Zones of Post-Main Sequence Stars,” was published May 16 in the Astrophysical Journal. This is due to effects like silicate weathering such as CO2 + CaSiO3 –> CaCO3 + SiO2. As an MS star evolves into a … “Currently objects in these outer regions are frozen in our own solar system, like Europa and Enceladus – moons orbiting Jupiter and Saturn.”. expand and change colour to make the environment harmful to complex life. The oldest detected Kepler planets (exoplanets found using NASA’s Kepler telescope) are about 11 billion years old, and the exoplanetary diversity suggests that around other stars, such initially frozen worlds could be the size of Earth and could provide habitable conditions once the star becomes older. In other words, the planet must be in the Habitable zone also known as the “Goldilocks zone”. In my research, I heard that the habitable zone for a blue giant star would be so far away that the planet would hardly receive any visible light, is this also true? the orbit of Neptune. We might end up becoming neurally interfaced with them. For the first three billion years of life, there was little free oxygen until photosynthetic organisms arose and started converting it to levels near that of today. What little they do comes from UV light striking the atmosphere and causing the bonded forms to disassociate, temporarily freeing the oxygen. I just went with what is likely to be the longest lived one since we need long timescales to create a good atmosphere. Type 2: A civ capable of utilizing all the resources of a solar system Will the planets move faster around a red star giant or slower? I doubt IGUS (information gathering and utilizing systems) evolve to gain ever greater control over everything with no bounds. But is it really plausible to have such planets? Races on these planets are often depicted as being old and wise since their stars are aged, and nearing the end of their lives. The only way to make this feasible again is to find a way to introduce sufficient amounts of new CO2 into the atmosphere just as the habitable zone starts sweeping by. Explore an interactive gallery of some of the most intriguing and exotic planets discovered so far. In “Planet of the Apes”, the Superman franchise, and Asimov’s _Foundation_ series Betelgeuse, Rao, and Arcturus are inhabited by intelligent life. Superman’s home planet was said to orbit a the fictional red giant, Rao. IIRC, Earth’s current orbit is well inside the outer atmosphere of the future red giant sun, but it’s possible that due to Sol’s mass loss Earth will move *just* far enough away to not be completely incinerated (but still deep fried). It forms things like H2O, CO2, oxides, etc… This is why Mars and Venus have virtually no free oxygen in their atmospheres. “For stars that are like our sun, but older, such thawed planets could stay warm up to half a billion years. If there’s too much CO2, it’s not only going to trap too much heat, but make it hard to breathe. This means complex life might have another 700-1000 million years. But, when it runs out, that support mechanism will be gone and the Sun will start to shrink. Since these sci-fi stories inevitably have humans walking around on the surface, there’s some pretty strict criteria this will have to follow. Will the Sun live through that stage, or not, or maybe? Before Kurzweil computing capacity crackpottery there was Kardashev energy capacity crackpottery!? The habitable zone of astar is the region in which a rocky planet can orbit and maintainliquid water on its surface. Firstly, the evolution of the star as it leaves the main sequence, swelling up as it becomes a red giant and getting brighter and hotter will mean that the “Goldilocks zone” will be sweeping outwards. Credit: Mandy Fischer. Since most of the material is ejected from the photosphere, it’s just hydrogen and helium. Stars don’t last forever. Star Size Comparison 2 - Duration: 6:51. This research was supported by the Simons Foundation and by the Carl Sagan Institute. Are we really alone? Unfortunately, no Rocky planet will lie in the habitable zone when the sun becomes a Red Giant. In a few billion years, our sun will turn into a red giant. The moons of these planets might then melt, so they become ocean planetoids, or objects with some sort of complicated chemical soup for their surface environment. Searching vast cosmic communities like real estate agents rifling through listings, Cornell astronomers now hunt through time and space for habitable exoplanets – planets beyond our own solar system – looking at planets flourishing in old star, red giant neighborhoods. Not only is this a possible explanation, but it is THE explanation for the Foundation Series. “It could also be that the singularity could manifest itself as the collapse of a complex society. 720x486 30.0 fps Frames: Habitable; 320x240 mpeg-1 (3.2 MB) 30.0 fps ; 640x480 mpeg-1 (9.9 MB) 30.0 fps ; 720x480 mpeg-2 (11.1 MB) 30.0 fps ; 640x480 mpeg-4 (2.8 MB) 30.0 fps ; 1024x768 jpeg (78.0 KB) Still Image; Right click movies to download them if they automatically play in your browser. So this is a red giant: A dying star that is swollen up and very bright. Also Kryptonians figured out how to grow entire cities from crytals, so there. Maybe the same holds or Europa or Ganymede. For that, we need to convert the atmosphere from an oxygen starved one, to an oxygen rich one via photosynthesis. This does push the future for life here another billion years, for the increased solar irradiance is about compensated for by this outward drift. This is generally a pretty good sized swath of celestial real estate. The problem here is that oxygen rich atmospheres just don’t exist without some assistance. However, in a few billion years our sun will become a red giant, engulfing Mercury and Venus, turning Earth and Mars into sizzling rocky planets, and warming distant worlds like Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune – and their moons – in a newly established red giant habitable zone. This new energy source pushes the outer layers of the star back out causing it to swell to thousands of times its previous size. Um, right. However, in a few billion years our sun will become a red giant, engulfing Mercury and Venus, turning Earth and Mars into sizzling rocky planets, … Anya Biferno. Star Maker : In Olaf Stapledon 's 1937 science fiction novel Star Maker , one of the many alien civilizations in the Milky Way he describes is located in the terminator zone of a tidally locked planet of a red dwarf system. While these effects are slow they build up with geological timescales. The atmosphere is crucial in other ways too. I’m sure I’ve read both here [UT] and elsewhere that life will become virtually impossible here in earth within the next 500 million years as it doesn’t actually take the sun to become a red giant i.e. In the 1-2 billion years before the sun becomes a red giant it will increase its temperature, so Mars might be habitable for a time. Already this stuff is becoming hugely complex and demanding, where it might be in a few decades it all becomes anthropologically unsustainable.”. IIRC Earths and superEarths may keep a substantial (habitable) atmosphere ~ 10-15 Gy tops, I believe I have a reference somewhere. Site Editor: “This means we can’t have old planets since they would have had all their free CO2 locked away into the surface.” I’m sorry to be ignorant, but why has that not happened on Venus or Mars? The increased solar irradiance will begin to accelerate and over take this drift. On 6 January 2015, NASA announced the 1000th confirmed exoplanet discovered by the Kepler Space Telescope. Where is the habitable zone? flairs. I’m not sure what you mean by “fictional examples” of life, I’m looking at a lot of (natural, natch) life on this planet right now! That makes me very optimistic for the chances for life in the long run.”. Not that it matters, as I’m confident we will destroy ourselves much, much sooner, anyway. This calculator (based on these papers) gives a habitable zone of $70-130\,{\rm AU}$. 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